new defrag version

sweet

If I made a map with the new entities, would they work on the server in the future when you upgrade to the new version? Or would it be best to wait until the stable version gets released?

sv off after mapchange :(

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sv off after mapchange :(

The server was still there it was just lagging like hell. I already turned off our record system and the serverdemos. Something keeps slowing down the server.
Now, I switched to the original quake3 binary with no modifications. Since i switched off the mDd tool completely the server will not answer to our website. So it looks like it's down but it's not. If it still lags there is nothing we can do.

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If I made a map with the new entities, would they work on the server in the future when you upgrade to the new version? Or would it be best to wait until the stable version gets released?

When you use the new features keep in mind that it should be possible to finish the map without these features, too. Like making a CPM map that can be finished in VQ3.

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When you use the new features keep in mind that it should be possible to finish the map without these features, too. Like making a CPM map that can be finished in VQ3.

I don't agree with that. This means you can't do stuff like use the target store and then restore to switch between horizontal and vertical speeds and things of that nature. In fact there's no reason to use them at all if you put it like that. It's like saying don't use trigger_push_velocity because it won't work in baseq3. If I make a map for defrag ... It's for defrag. I could care less if it's possible in baseq3. Simple as that.

I do think maps should be vq3/cpm playable but still there's a million and one examples of cpm maps that are not possible in vq3. There's also ctf maps that mode 1 caps aren't possible in.

Well, feel free to map those. Upload them and watch people not playing it because it's not compatible to 1.91.xx. It's going to take a while until 1.92.xx is the main branch.

I was simply asking whether adding those features would work on the servers later, in the future, down the road ... , if they were put into a map right now. Meaning more or less ... will there be coding changes that would stop a map made for the current beta release from working in the future stable release that will be uploaded to the servers.

I have no problem letting a map rot on my hard drive until the servers are upgraded I just want to know if I would be wasting my time experimenting now rather than later.

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When you use the new features keep in mind that it should be possible to finish the map without these features, too. Like making a CPM map that can be finished in VQ3.

I don't agree with that. This means you can't do stuff like use the target store and then restore to switch between horizontal and vertical speeds and things of that nature. In fact there's no reason to use them at all if you put it like that. It's like saying don't use trigger_push_velocity because it won't work in baseq3. If I make a map for defrag ... It's for defrag. I could care less if it's possible in baseq3. Simple as that.

I do think maps should be vq3/cpm playable but still there's a million and one examples of cpm maps that are not possible in vq3. There's also ctf maps that mode 1 caps aren't possible in.

Unfortunately, that's part of the problem. The mod starts to become less Q3 and more of a standalone game.

The entire act of creating a map with the goal of moving from point A to point B with the fastest time isn't exactly part of original q3. If you want to get picky neither is cpm physics. Adding new elements that may be added into those maps at the mapper's discretion (simply adding these features doesn't mean they will be used in every single map ever made from now until the end of time) isn't exactly a huge game-breaking thing. Using the save/restore to swap horizontal and vertical speeds as I mentioned does not change your ability to do something like strafe in any way. The physics of the game engine does not change in any way it's simply a new optional mechanic to be used within the confines of a map.

9#^1P^7ho^1e^7ni^1x^7
The entire act of creating a map with the goal of moving from point A to point B with the fastest time isn't exactly part of original q3. If you want to get picky neither is cpm physics. Adding new elements that may be added into those maps at the mapper's discretion (simply adding these features doesn't mean they will be used in every single map ever made from now until the end of time) isn't exactly a huge game-breaking thing. Using the save/restore to swap horizontal and vertical speeds as I mentioned does not change your ability to do something like strafe in any way. The physics of the game engine does not change in any way it's simply a new optional mechanic to be used within the confines of a map.

Sure, it's not part of the original Q3, but that's not the point I'm making. Same with CPM but we can blame arqon for that one. It's always been a nice feature, if you will, that you could load a defrag map in osp and finish it there, but suddenly that doesn't exactly become possible. Unfortunately, using the features you requested DOES break it in such a way that you're no longer able to them in any other mod except in Defrag now.

I guess I should have said it becomes slightly less-unpossible given velocity_push? Anyways, I bothers me that some maps will ultimately become locked to Defrag in a way that you'll be unable to complete them without using Defrag completely. Relying on stuff can be a downer.

Oh well.

Yes those maps wouldn't be possible in other mods but let's be honest here. Why does that matter? I don't see any OSP servers with a craving to do the latest run map. I don't particularly feel an urge to run a defrag map outside of defrag. Sure it's possible in some senses but if we're talking online you can't just callvote any defrag map and be able to complete it in a typical frag server. Any map requiring an OB is easily impossible.

This might just be my opinion but the way I see it is it's 2010. The internet is not a new thing. Computers are far more advanced than they were 5,10,15 years ago. If you're at a point where you can download a custom map for q3 then downloading the defrag mod isn't really a huge leap. It's not like it takes up a significant amount of disk space regardless of the size of your hard drive.

I'm not trying to turn defrag into a standalone project or anything of that sort but I don't see a problem in adding more tools into the mapper's toolbox under the condition that they are practical... and the proposed entities in Berserker's thread are all fairly practical.

You might not have the urge to run a defrag map outside of defrag but I might, or those .16ers running their noghost mods might (and do). The argument about the OB doesn't quite work here, unfortunately. Given rcon on a baseq3 server, I'm pretty sure you can rcon pmove on, and in osp it's a matter of reffing pmove anyways.

And yes, while downloading defrag is not a huge task in itself, it sucks to have to rely on a mod to play a certain map. It's rather nice I can play some of these run maps with my friends in an OSP server (yes, we still do). While you may not be trying to turn it into a standalone project, that's the direction it seems to be heading.

It's moving in that direction that makes it not-so-much Q3 anymore.

I should probably point out that I'm not entirely against them, btw. Just throwing that out there.

Also, message me on msn when you have the time so I can give you that info you need to start your project.

The only future that Defrag have is to be standalone. No one, and i mean NO ONE ! will ever buy Quake 3 for playing Defrag. With release of high quality baseq3 textureset, there is nothing that can stop making Defrag a standalone version. But at last DFEngine should have some changes, like remove check of productid.txt, and remove that black and white "textures" that are show when there are missing textures.

Does someone who can code want to be a leader of Derag Standalone Project ?

Thread is here: http://www.q3df.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=105

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You might not have the urge to run a defrag map outside of defrag but I might, or those .16ers running their noghost mods might (and do).

Who the hell care about some 1.16n noghost morons ? We should limit Defrag/map features because they don't work in baseq3/mostshitmodforq3ever ? What kind of nonsense is this ?

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And yes, while downloading defrag is not a huge task in itself, it sucks to have to rely on a mod to play a certain map. It's rather nice I can play some of these run maps with my friends in an OSP server (yes, we still do). While you may not be trying to turn it into a standalone project, that's the direction it seems to be heading.

You can't play CPM maps in baseq3 niethier. You point that you want to play Defrag CPM maps in OSP - IT IS STILL A FUCKIN MOD SO YOU NEED DOWNLOAD IT ! Why downloading OSP to play some map is ok, while downloading Defrag is bad ?

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It's moving in that direction that makes it not-so-much Q3 anymore.

Because it's Defrag and the lane was crossed when CPM physic was added. It's called evolution. A map evolution. You cannot stop it.

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You might not have the urge to run a defrag map outside of defrag but I might, or those .16ers running their noghost mods might (and do). The argument about the OB doesn't quite work here, unfortunately. Given rcon on a baseq3 server, I'm pretty sure you can rcon pmove on, and in osp it's a matter of reffing pmove anyways.

If you refuse to play the main mod designed for speedrun maps, there are always 9877 other maps for you to play.

I don't understand why ppl are against the new map entities. The discussion about new entites has been around in the forum since - let me check - 24th of may 2010. Nobody was really against implementing them. So BIG THX to berserker for his work!

I mean, some of you act as if all new maps will only use the new entities and the maps won't be fully available for other mods.
My opinion: As a mapper, I - and only I - decide how I want that map to be. I can care if it should work in other mods or I dont give a fuck. Since I create DeFraG maps, the second option is more important.

If you want that maps are available for all mods - go ahead and create your own maps!

It isn't a mod coder's job to assure compatibility of his mod's maps with other mods.

Also I don't see why mappers should care about that in any way. The map is their personal creation and they can make them as they please. A mapper who made a defrag map made it for defrag and thus doesn't have to give a flyin fuk about whether it might work or not for some ".16 people running a different mod" or anyone else.
You don't like it, you play other maps or make your own maps. There are more than enough maps to choose from.

You people obviously fear changes, learn to deal with them because they'll happen sooner or later.

speaking of hi res baseq3 texture set.... http://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43731&start=35 5th post from top, official release

i think morbus said it best. its up to the mappers to decide if they want their maps to be implemented into other mods or to be mapped a certain.. personally i dont give a rats ass about 'my' maps being implemented in other mods/games. because its not meant for that. i make defrag maps, so they should be played in defrag mod.

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speaking of hi res baseq3 texture set.... http://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43731&start=35 5th post from top, official release

Holy... man...

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20#^0Ghost^1>)^7MINIONS^1(<^7
speaking of hi res baseq3 texture set.... http://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43731&start=35 5th post from top, official release

Holy... man...

Wow it's look even better than baseq3 !!

yeah its a big improvement on the textures, but not much use to other playera if mappers dont rename texture paths. for exaple i renamed gothic_wall to gothic_wall-hires same with all the shaders.

note: if you bothered too read the readme at all you would know that it was made for a standalone game or a mod I forget. anyway my point is if you are going to use this tex pack remame texture paths and copy/rename the shaders to avoid any problems."

PS: I love the new swype keyboard on my phone sooo much easier to write shit out

u have it backwards ghost.
makes it worse if u rename it to something else.

rename texture paths and copy/rename the shaders to avoid any problems."

there are no probs at all .&

no, because you'd be overwriting existing textures. it would be fine IF the textures were exactly the same, but they're double the size. textures that were 256x256 are now 512x512, you would get a lot of misaligned textures in older maps.

26#^0Ghost^1>)^7MINIONS^1(<^7
no, because you'd be overwriting existing textures. it would be fine IF the textures were exactly the same, but they're double the size. textures that were 256x256 are now 512x512, you would get a lot of misaligned textures in older maps.

They look fine in the absolutely oldest q3 maps :P

well thats the whole point of an highres pack to change existing q3 textures.

xD

i havent tested it yet, but if the maps come out fine then disregard my statment. :D

yeah it works fine disregard what i said about renaming folders/shaders

haha friend :D

Well renaming isn't a horrible idea still. By using the high res textures in a map with their current names it will override the default textures for anyone who downloads your map. This would assume that that person WANTS this to happen. For anyone who doesn't want this your map would become a problem would it not?

I think it looks good for the most part but I find all the tech stuff he tried to do on the jump pads to be quite ugly and will probably end up replacing those when I have time.