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Custom radiant + noOb compiler

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Custom radiant + noOb compiler

Postby Le another black niger » Jun 17th, '15, 11:25 am

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Re: Custom radiant + noOb compiler

Postby sL1k » Jun 17th, '15, 11:51 am

Cant wait to test as soon as back Home
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Re: Custom radiant + noOb compiler

Postby GPL » Jun 17th, '15, 4:30 pm

these look like some very welcome changes, nice work. :geek:
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Re: Custom radiant + noOb compiler

Postby amt-morbus » Jun 20th, '15, 11:55 pm

Hey, some very interesting and useful features that you added. Here is some feedback/questions/feature suggestions:

Q3map2 changes
> Can you explain the changes to farplanedist? I think some games use different methods of clipping as far as I remember...

Netradiant
> Can you make the binds customizeable? For me, your custom bind breaks the workflow that I used ever since working with radiant and I like to keep that (deselecting via ESC, deleting brushes via Backspace and moving around in camera mode via the arrow keys). Using the same arrow keys for both, the 2d and the 3d mode made perfect sense to me.

> Some of the plugins easily crash Netradiant. The meshtex plugin for example: I haven't used it yet and played around with it. It crashed Netradiant after applying some settings.

> The file explorer loads the directories kind of slow. GTK 1.5 is much faster in my case.

> Bobtools plugin: is the duplicate brushes function broken? it doesn't work for me.

> Build menu: it's not obvious how to Customize the menu. Could you explain how to add custom build options for the compiles?

> Great to have more options for aligning textures on patches! Gonna test that

> I like the clipping tool. Would be great to also improve the visual representation of the cut like in radiant 1.6

> A button to load the compiled map would be awesome and make the routine of maptesting much faster instead of launching q3 and typing the mapname to load the map. Would be also great to change the engine type that Netradiant uses to load the map. The same goes for the compiler that Netradiant uses (very handy with q3map2toolz since you can define several different compilers and select the one to use from a dropdown menu).

> Not sure if this feature was intended but doesn't work: Shift+LMB in the texture window to open a corresponding shader. Could be very neat to open shaderfiles for editing this way.

> Maybe add the following useful information to Misc > Map info: Count of brush entities - i.e. not including other entities. Would be also great to expand the entity breaktdown and selecting the entities from there.

> CTRL+ALT+E to select an entire entity brush seems to be broken - i.e. selecting all brushes of an entity via the shortcut does not work anymore


I'm going to test it further and check out the 'new' features. Only the shortcuts really bother me, I think they should be up to the liking of the user and hence be customizeable. Otherwise, great work - this is the first consideration to leave GTK 1.5 and switching over to different editor since the transition from Q3Radiant to GTK 1.5 :banana-dance:
Last edited by amt-morbus on Jun 21st, '15, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Custom radiant + noOb compiler

Postby Le another black niger » Jun 21st, '15, 11:25 am

amt-morbus wrote:Q3map2 changes
> Can you explain the changes to farplanedist? I think some games use different methods of clipping as far as I remember...

It is compiler only thing, game can't clip on distance.
Touched it, since it was resulting in (2*set value) clipping dist in most favorable case (square portals).
In case of, lets say, high rectangular ones it was taking height in consideration too, thus was pretty uncontrollable.
..q3map2_noob.7z\q3map2_noob\readme-custom.txt:
    alt farplane measurement modes: radius+radius, origin2origin, exact (kinda; similar to default, but is based on the set value, not 2x): add r/o/e to the number to enable; < 0 works now too

Netradiant
> Can you make the binds customizeable? For me, your custom bind breaks the workflow that I used ever since working with radiant and I like to keep that (deselecting via ESC, deleting brushes via Backspace and moving around in camera mode via the arrow keys). Using the same arrow keys for both, the 2d and the 3d mode made perfect sense to me.

Surprise, 1.5 and netradiant (which is stabilized 1.5, one more surprise) support customizing binds.
Net one even can do it from menu ;)
I changed these basic binds, since they were far from being smart: most of shortcuts live near wasd.
And, well, some ppl(people) were begging about that.
Getting used to them on reflex level takes amount if time, requiring to build avg df map.
How do you use arrow keys in 2d?

> Some of the plugins easily crash Netradiant. The meshtex plugin for example: I haven't used it yet and played around with it. It crashed Netradiant after applying some settings.

Meshtex is quick rewrite of 3rd party one from 1.4 for 1.5
It seemed to work and i decided to include :)
Have to work in most cases tho, net changes were not about breaking plugins interface (feel free to check every single change in changelog from src.7z).
Atm i'm pretty much scared of crazy c++ things, going inside the editor, barely can understand a single line, hehe.
So don't count for much.
This one has low priority anyway, because the plugin is overcomplicated (as author mentioned).
What other plugins produce crash?

> The file explorer loads the directories kind of slow. GTK 1.5 is much faster in my case.

No difference here, both are lightning.
Try tips from 'startup troubleshooting.txt'
Some people also reported uber slow startup w/o those tips, looked like awaiting for some timeout.
Would be cool to locate the problem

> Bobtools plugin: is the duplicate brushes function broken? it doesn't work for me.

Uh, weird, i don't have 'duplicate brushes' in Bobtoolz.
Occasionally made tree planter to work, while searching, lol.

> Build menu: it's not obvious how to Customize the menu. Could you explain how to add custom build options for the compiles?

Well, equally to 1.5 (and even has the same bug).
click empty field, enter name
then have to switch to preexisting one to bypass the bug-)
then back and now you'v got empty fields to enter cmd line
or just edit build_menu.xml :idea:
I think devs were switching to preexisting one to copypaste cmd line, thus didn't notice that bug.
Likely easy to fix though.

> Great to have more options for aligning textures on patches! Gonna test that

These aren't new, just brought them to menu...
Was performing infamous actions to invert patch tex the other day
and now discovered existing function.

> I like the clipping tool. Would be great to also improve the visual representation of the cut like in radiant 1.6

Agreed, but it's not easy/critical + questionable (performance).

> A button to load the compiled map would be awesome and make the routine of maptesting much faster instead of launching q3 and typing the mapname to load the map. Would be also great to change the engine type that Netradiant uses to load the map. The same goes for the compiler that Netradiant uses (very handy with q3map2toolz since you can define several different compilers and select the one to use from a dropdown menu).

Hm, i don't even close q3. Am i doing it wrong? (alt+tab to q3, key, bound to reload current map, or just vid_restart)
..readme-custom.txt:
    possibilities found:
    can alter in .game: common_shaders_name="Common" common_shaders_dir="common/"
    engine_win32="dfengine.exe" (to run map with option 'run engine after compile')
    can alter q3map2 being used: by editing build_menu.xml: <var name="q3map2">...
Also i'm pretty sure you can add build menu item, which will run a map in engine!
Btw, what compilers have what advantages over net's one?

> Not sure if this feature was intended but doesn't work: Shift+LMB in the texture window to open a corresponding shader. Could be very neat to open shaderfiles for editing this way.

..mouse shortcuts.txt
    shift + m1 click in tex browser:open shader in internal/external editor (broken!)

> Maybe add the following useful information to Misc > Map info: Count of brush entities - i.e. not including other entities.

I suppose not including func_groups aswell.
This is specific rarely useful info, although you can clone brushmodels.
Good idea is to add it to compiler's output.
Other good one is to show game ents count there (w/o models, lights, groups), since one, showing atm, is barely useful.

Would be also great to expand the entity breaktdown and selecting the entities from there.

Yes, would be; or alternatively sorting options for 'L' ents list, that sounds 20x easier.

> CTRL+ALT+E to select an entire entity brush seems to be broken - i.e. selecting all brushes of an entity via the shortcut does not work anymore

Changed, logged.


Thanks for feedback, ideas, alternative pov.
You can check main differences from 1.5 in Help->General docs.
My changes are logged to readme-custom.txt
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Re: Custom radiant + noOb compiler

Postby amt-morbus » Jun 21st, '15, 2:11 pm

Le another black niger wrote:
Netradiant
> Can you make the binds customizeable? For me, your custom bind breaks the workflow that I used ever since working with radiant and I like to keep that (deselecting via ESC, deleting brushes via Backspace and moving around in camera mode via the arrow keys). Using the same arrow keys for both, the 2d and the 3d mode made perfect sense to me.

Surprise, 1.5 and netradiant (which is stabilized 1.5, one more surprise) support customizing binds.
Net one even can do it from menu ;)
I changed these basic binds, since they were far from being smart: most of shortcuts live near wasd.
And, well, some ppl(people)(people) were begging about that.
Getting used to them on reflex level takes amount if time, requiring to build avg df map.
How do you use arrow keys in 2d?

I see, the 'shortcut list' is burried in the Help menu. Great to change shortcuts directly in the editor in Netradiant. I use the arrow keys for minor camera adjustments when working in an area instead of switching to 3d and repositioning the camera.


> Some of the plugins easily crash Netradiant. The meshtex plugin for example: I haven't used it yet and played around with it. It crashed Netradiant after applying some settings.

Meshtex is quick rewrite of 3rd party one from 1.4 for 1.5
It seemed to work and i decided to include :)
Have to work in most cases tho, net changes were not about breaking plugins interface (feel free to check every single change in changelog from src.7z).
Atm i'm pretty much scared of crazy c++ things, going inside the editor, barely can understand a single line, hehe.
So don't count for much.
This one has low priority anyway, because the plugin is overcomplicated (as author mentioned).
What other plugins produce crash?

Only tested Meshtex, few bobtoolz features and used prtview - so I didn't yet test all the features in depth. Meshtex and bobtoolz caused a crash up to now. Somehow Netradiant isn't as stable as GTK 1.5 for me. It crashed 5 times as I was testing it - mostly when making selections and using shortcuts or using a not applicable plugin function. Again, I have to do further testing to give you more precise feedback on those crashes.

Btw.: Possible addition might be the Q3Radiant patch texture plugin: http://quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic. ... re#p987268


> The file explorer loads the directories kind of slow. GTK 1.5 is much faster in my case.

No difference here, both are lightning.
Try tips from 'startup troubleshooting.txt'
Some people also reported uber slow startup w/o those tips, looked like awaiting for some timeout.
Would be cool to locate the problem

The first startup was indeed very very slow although it runs from my SSD. It appears as if it takes very long time to get a comprehensive list of the files in each directory > it again is very slow if i choose a different directory to save the mapfile in.

Further: When opening a mapfile via typing in the first letters of the mapname, it somehow has trouble to load the maps on double click. One first has to get rid of the type box via ESC and then double click. No big deal but still annoying.


> Bobtools plugin: is the duplicate brushes function broken? it doesn't work for me.

Uh, weird, i don't have 'duplicate brushes' in Bobtoolz.
Occasionally made tree planter to work, while searching, lol.

The function is called Brush cleanup and it removes invalid and duplicate planes.

> Build menu: it's not obvious how to Customize the menu. Could you explain how to add custom build options for the compiles?

Well, equally to 1.5 (and even has the same bug).
click empty field, enter name
then have to switch to preexisting one to bypass the bug-)
then back and now you'v got empty fields to enter cmd line
or just edit build_menu.xml :idea:
I think devs were switching to preexisting one to copypaste cmd line, thus didn't notice that bug.
Likely easy to fix though.

Nothing to add :D

> Great to have more options for aligning textures on patches! Gonna test that

These aren't new, just brought them to menu...
Was performing infamous actions to invert patch tex the other day
and now discovered existing function.

Ad http://quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic. ... re#p987268

> I like the clipping tool. Would be great to also improve the visual representation of the cut like in radiant 1.6

Agreed, but it's not easy/critical + questionable (performance).

It's one of my 1.6 highlights. You instantly see the resulting cut. In 1.5 you sometimes have to reposition the camera to see the cut.

> A button to load the compiled map would be awesome and make the routine of maptesting much faster instead of launching q3 and typing the mapname to load the map. Would be also great to change the engine type that Netradiant uses to load the map. The same goes for the compiler that Netradiant uses (very handy with q3map2toolz since you can define several different compilers and select the one to use from a dropdown menu).

Hm, i don't even close q3. Am i doing it wrong? (alt+tab to q3, key, bound to reload current map, or just vid_restart)
..readme-custom.txt:
    possibilities found:
    can alter in .game: common_shaders_name="Common" common_shaders_dir="common/"
    engine_win32="dfengine.exe" (to run map with option 'run engine after compile')
    can alter q3map2 being used: by editing build_menu.xml: <var name="q3map2">...
Also i'm pretty sure you can add build menu item, which will run a map in engine!
Btw, what compilers have what advantages over net's one?

That would be great to have that kind of build menu in Netradiant. I am used to switch to Q3map2Toolz for compiling and an easy to use UI for compiling. Sometimes you forget how a certain switch is called and this little tool makes it very easy since you add them via checkboxes.

I just used your custom q3map2 for one compile. But there is always this one little bug that is unforseen and then it's nice to be able to use a different compiler.

Next to that, I think the most useful tool for mapping would be a functioning map packer. There are so many pk3 files floating around with missing textures/shaders.


> Not sure if this feature was intended but doesn't work: Shift+LMB in the texture window to open a corresponding shader. Could be very neat to open shaderfiles for editing this way.

..mouse shortcuts.txt
    shift + m1 click in tex browser:open shader in internal/external editor (broken!)

:( - can you fix it :D *hands over WD40 and duct tape*

> Maybe add the following useful information to Misc > Map info: Count of brush entities - i.e. not including other entities.

I suppose not including func_groups aswell.
This is specific rarely useful info, although you can clone brushmodels.
Good idea is to add it to compiler's output.
Other good one is to show game ents count there (w/o models, lights, groups), since one, showing atm, is barely useful.

Showing it in Radiant would be just handy since you don't have to compile the map in order to get the info. This in combination with entity limitations would be useful. Btw: Is there a list of q3 engine limitations in Netradiant?

Would be also great to expand the entity breaktdown and selecting the entities from there.

Yes, would be; or alternatively sorting options for 'L' ents list, that sounds 20x easier.

True. This could be still improved by considering the targetname. Now you it's trial and error to find your desired entity.

> CTRL+ALT+E to select an entire entity brush seems to be broken - i.e. selecting all brushes of an entity via the shortcut does not work anymore

Changed, logged.

+1 shift+E is more convenient

Thanks for feedback, ideas, alternative pov.
You can check main differences from 1.5 in Help->General docs.
My changes are logged to readme-custom.txt


> View filters: Possible to add the View>filter buttons to the menu? I use them all the time and it would be great to see which filter is activated with a glimpse. There is still enough space next to the bobtoolz buttons.

> Model rotation bug: Applying angles with just yaw values and then moving the model itself results resets the model to its default. For example: angles 0 90 0 and then move it - the angles key disappears. Yes, the workaround is to just use yaw...
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Re: Custom radiant + noOb compiler

Postby Le another black niger » Jun 22nd, '15, 9:43 am

I use the arrow keys for minor camera adjustments when working in an area instead of switching to 3d and repositioning the camera.
Ok, got you.
Hope you are aware of m3 and ctrl+m3 binds.

Btw.: Possible addition might be the Q3Radiant patch texture plugin: http://quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic. ... re#p987268
UV editor; far from easy task, and you can't just copypaste the code, 1.5 is practically rewritten from scratch.
There is disabled UV editor in the code though.
Very pro guys, including one from id, couldnt finish it; it's half-broken atm.
Theres great conversation in comments about 1 or -1 in texture matrix :lol:
Btw, lame question in that topic; texturing data is saved in vertices; touching quads share common vertices, so tex tool wont help him a lot.
He should just split patch via bobtoolz (this works in netradiant) and tex natural.
Atm you can control texturing in every vertice via patch surf inspector, but not in comfortable way.
There is working UV editor in darkradiant, prolly can steal that one.

The first startup was indeed very very slow although it runs from my SSD. It appears as if it takes very long time to get a comprehensive list of the files in each directory > it again is very slow if i choose a different directory to save the mapfile in.
Netradiant tries to autodetect game on 1st startup = accessing a few directories.
Same for loading texs, saving to unusual dir.
Delays are not about doing hard work, but compatibility with certain OS setup.
As an example, loading map 4-riwa, which uses srs amount of hi-res texs:
map load timer: 3.98 second(s) elapsed
Exactly the same in 1.5

Further: When opening a mapfile via typing in the first letters of the mapname, it somehow has trouble to load the maps on double click. One first has to get rid of the type box via ESC and then double click. No big deal but still annoying.
Enter does the work.
It's about gtk lib (net uses newer one); openfiles and searchByLetter are just standard modules.
Not a perspective thing to dig in.

The function is called Brush cleanup and it removes invalid and duplicate planes.
Appears to work here:
>>bobToolz FixBrushes: 0 invalid/duplicate planes removed.
But i fairly have no idea how to produce broken thing to test on :mrgreen:

I am used to switch to Q3map2Toolz for compiling and an easy to use UI for compiling. Sometimes you forget how a certain switch is called and this little tool makes it very easy since you add them via checkboxes.
Using batch file here. Suddenly it works as quick, as way with tickboxes.

Next to that, I think the most useful tool for mapping would be a functioning map packer.
This appears to be one of the most valuable things to put efforts in.
Would be easier, if equim's mapaker src was available.

shift + m1 click in tex browser:open shader in internal/external editor (broken!)
:( - can you fix it :D *hands over WD40 and duct tape*

No idea, if i can, but shall look on this.

Is there a list of q3 engine limitations in Netradiant?
Nope; it supports great list of games, including doom3 and q4 (with lighting preview!), so no favor is given to q3.
Although there are just a few reachable limits.

True. This could be still improved by considering the targetname. Now you it's trial and error to find your desired entity.
It uses targetname atm. Did you mean target string?

View filters: Possible to add the View>filter buttons to the menu? I use them all the time and it would be great to see which filter is activated with a glimpse. There is still enough space next to the bobtoolz buttons.
Seems to be not very hard. Had this wish to quickly check the state a few times too.
Atm best way is to detach filter menu.
Any ideas how to visualize translucent and nonsolid on button icons?

Model rotation bug: Applying angles with just yaw values and then moving the model itself results resets the model to its default. For example: angles 0 90 0 and then move it - the angles key disappears. Yes, the workaround is to just use yaw...
Confirmed. And basically for any directional entity, same in 1.5
Seems it's trying to convert angles p y r with p=r=0 to angle y, but fails halfway :mrgreen:
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Re: Custom radiant + noOb compiler

Postby amt-morbus » Jun 22nd, '15, 1:46 pm

Ad visualizing the filters: I'd simply use a 3 letter code for the buttons.
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Re: Custom radiant + noOb compiler

Postby Le another black niger » Jun 24th, '15, 8:11 am

Made a try to run netraiant on w7 64bit professional.
1st startup was incredibly long, appeared to explore whole system drive :D
1st startup with 'run as admin' option was lightning, as planned.
Disables aero automatically.
Loading same 4-riwa map took 4 seconds with both admin and not admin options.
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Re: Custom radiant + noOb compiler

Postby sL1k » Jun 24th, '15, 11:10 am

I'm on win7 x64 ultimate. Radiant and quake on sata 3 drive. 8 gig of ram Intel i7 3770. Even first start wasn't too long. Sometimes it happens to be slow but it feels like random appearing. Might didn't take too long as my quake dev folder is mostly like fresh q3.

Note: Didn't run as administrator as I have the radiant on d:/ drive. As far I know admin only needed in case radiant folder is placed in windows/programs folder. Correct me if I'm wrong
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