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Bot Competition

Bot Competition

Postby khetti » Oct 1st, '12, 1:52 am

A few people (several of them me) have at various times expressed interest in an official bot ranking, both for online play and for offline comps / DFWC.

Competition requires logical rules and some form of validation to have meaning, so list your concerns here.
Or just show interest, if you have any 8-)
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Re: Bot Competition

Postby sjuk » Oct 1st, '12, 6:27 am

Go Go Nerdy Rangeeeeers!
After playing a lot on kozomёt's blue tile surface maps you will not remain the same person #:&
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Re: Bot Competition

Postby BerserK » Oct 1st, '12, 11:59 am

No.
"Everyone cares about allowed scripts and huds, lol, care about skills." © P.J.RiPPeR
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Re: Bot Competition

Postby Arcaon » Oct 1st, '12, 12:03 pm

You can maybe gather two other competitors, and they will probably not be using a text editor.

Do it inofficially, I say.
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Re: Bot Competition

Postby [fps]Mntr » Oct 1st, '12, 1:04 pm

well, this should be at least on strafe maps :)
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Re: Bot Competition

Postby dqopb » Oct 1st, '12, 3:32 pm

Arcaon wrote:You can maybe gather two other competitors

Right, the question is whether there are enough competitors.
[fps]Mntr wrote:well, this should be at least on strafe maps

Disagree, there should be weapon tricks too. Weapons/obs/etc are much more fun than pure strafing imho.
khetti wrote:...an official bot ranking, both for online play and for offline comps / DFWC.

IMO there's no need for official ranking, because there are few players capable of scripting, and even less making efforts in it.
However, I find offline scripting interesting and would love to compete in dfwc2k12.

What about the rules, I'd suggest making upmove 10 allowed and rightmove -128 disallowed. These settings are kind of a standard for strafebots, once set by Camping Gaz.
However, if someone claims an intention to participate in dfwc2012 with scripts (not bot), we may need to make upmove 10 disallowed (scripts can't do upmove 10, right?). I also suggest scripted/boted dfwc to be offline - same as normal dfwc, and not ping/lag-dependent.
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Re: Bot Competition

Postby BerserK » Oct 1st, '12, 9:12 pm

Nope. :snooty:

Make your own competition, DO NOT unify it with regular competition for players. Don't forget that DFWC is TiTAN's and NEMESIS's trademark. :)

P.S.
Trust me, there are lot of people which could script the bot, but they prefer fun and their own skill instead of perfectionism of a bot.
"Everyone cares about allowed scripts and huds, lol, care about skills." © P.J.RiPPeR
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Re: Bot Competition

Postby dqopb » Oct 1st, '12, 10:00 pm

BerserK wrote:DO NOT unify it with regular competition for players.

If Arcaon or Shio or Golem or whoever wins 1st place on a map, and khetti makes a boted record faster, it doesn't mean khetti is a more skilled defrager, right? Its a different discipline, no competition with players prefering fun and skill. That's why khetti proposed to open a separate ranking for bots, no offence.
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Re: Bot Competition

Postby dqopb » Oct 1st, '12, 10:29 pm

What about the rules, I have got the following thoughts in mind (will now try to follow official dfwc rules order).

1. DeFRaG version 1.91.20
2. Clients - of course custom clients are allowed.
3. Not allowed to violate the physics, but allowed to alter the input methods.
4. Autojumping - allow. Replaying - why use it with bots? No idea, I don't care. I guess nobody wants to confess he has a replay bot XD
5. Timescale disallowed.
6. Accounts. Since it seems there will be no official ranking for bots, there's no need to associate demos with accounts, just attach and post.
7. Patch 1.32c
8. Same deadline for demos? Long maps can take very long to script well.. TBD.
9. Same demo names pattern as official/default, add mark 'boted' somewhere. We can also specify a boted competition string.
10. cvars same as in official dfwc.
11. The most interesting item.
Do not change cvars. Allow executions commands ofc.
Official rules disallow usage of random obs from weapons and slopes. I believe, that is to exclude luck factor and only aim to skill. But bots and scripts can make these kinds of obs 100% stable, no luck needed. So I propose to allow these obs. As for me, I'd also allow timer reset (if possible on a map), but it is of course negotiable.

I can later find better words for this all, to make it sound in a lawyer style :D

I'm waiting for more suggestions, or participation claims, or reasonable prohibitions to script/bot on dfwc maps (rly, why not?).
So far it seems its only me and khetti to be willing to script the dfwc maps, and I'm not sure about q3a.
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Re: Bot Competition

Postby khetti » Oct 2nd, '12, 4:29 am

Those rules sound fine.
I'd ban rm -128, and allow low upmove, and TR sounds acceptable.
I'd keep the usual 1 week deadline, though with so few players there is no reason to be strict if doing so will hurt the end result.

You may be right about the very few participants, that is a shame but it is after all the first such comp :?

I'd have no problem with multiple people collaborating and combining their efforts, as you note making these demos can be time consuming and difficult, maybe this will allow for more contributions.
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