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Callvote reset DB F1 or F2 ?

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Move mDd times into !oldtop and start a fresh database?

Yes
67
68%
No
32
32%
 
Total votes : 99

Re: Callvote reset DB F1 or F2 ?

Postby AL!EN » May 10th, '10, 5:31 pm

I don't even want to think what players like ZyaX, Arca, Bazz or anyone who have 300+ very good online times will feel when they will be gone. I never wanted to play online because I was fear that my all priceless times will be deleted :cry:

That is why I like offline rankings with demos: when you post you demo, everyone can check it and you will be first as long as you don't broke rules :twisted:

I want to see "Upload a demo for online time" function. Then we can stop care about resetting DB because of cheated times. People will be look at the "top10 that have demos uploaded" instead of top10.

And from my experience even if you know exactly route/jumps/angles etc, is not mean that you can do it ;)

I never have problem with showing fastest possible route publicly so i will really love "Upload Demo" function !

Nightmare: can you give us some details about it :?:
"strafe is the most important 'weapon' in defrag" - <hk>
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Re: Callvote reset DB F1 or F2 ?

Postby dS-atom » May 10th, '10, 6:52 pm

$$-albion wrote:
defrag is not a competition, i play for fun.

Also, what's up with all these MEGA posts? If you plan to make a megapost atleast put a tl;dr at the end with the keywords :p



Yea, thats why i said Yes i know that there is few players playing for fun but still not the majority..

Also i think everyone needs to respect each player opinion in this matter so this will be my last post.. i think i got most of it in my last post.. Now its up to hk/nightmare to decide the outcome ! :roll:
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Re: Callvote reset DB F1 or F2 ?

Postby ZyaX » May 10th, '10, 7:26 pm

I strongly disagree with the olypmics comparison. It fails on so many parts. :snooty:
Online defrag is not an event that goes on for a few weeks every other year, where you only have like 2 tries to make your time. There are thousands of maps to play and figure out routes on, in the olympics it's around 20 or something, and it's quite obvious what technique to use. It is also very different to move the current db to an cheat-labelled oldtop, than how it works with historical records of the olympics.
If you really want to make analogies, then think of each olympics event as when a map is being played on the server and the current scoreboard is when you press tab. But the records will be stored in the db for the next time anyone would play the same map and wonder what the best time was.

Why do you really want to close your eyes to the times that are best? And be fool yourself to be under the false impression of that you are setting the best time.
If you really wanted to compare yourself to only recent times set then you can use !top detail and look at the dates. If that is really too strenuous, then request a command like !top recent, that would only show newer than 3 months or something. But I really don't understand why. Is it because you want to socially engage with players that are at around the same skill as you? You really don't need a db wipe to find out how good people are. It doesn't take a long time just playing on the servers and spectating now and again to find this out. :dance:

If you'd say that players who already have a top10 rank on a really well played map and that map is voted, then they would only stay in spec mode or just leave and not "put up a fight". It's because they already prove their skills. That is the whole point of the db isn't it? So that you don't have to play every god damn time the map comes on to prove what time you actually got.
On the other hand, I don't do this all the time. I usually accept the temporary challenge of getting the best time quickest on the server at this particular time when the map has been voted. And I am usually taking the opportunity to improve my previous time as well. Possibly by trying to strafe harder or look for new routes. :think:

But this is just me. Does the game really feel that dead to all of you who voted yes, just because of the it's so hard to get a top10 time? :roll:
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Re: Callvote reset DB F1 or F2 ?

Postby dS-atom » May 10th, '10, 8:04 pm

ZyaX wrote:But this is just me. Does the game really feel that dead to all of you who voted yes, just because of the it's so hard to get a top10 time? :roll:


I dont think that is fair.. Example i have an average rank 3-4 with 500 records with my account so no, that is not the issue.. More like the scene is standing still.

//
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Re: Callvote reset DB F1 or F2 ?

Postby $$-albion » May 10th, '10, 9:25 pm

dS-atom wrote:
ZyaX wrote:But this is just me. Does the game really feel that dead to all of you who voted yes, just because of the it's so hard to get a top10 time? :roll:


I dont think that is fair.. Example i have an average rank 3-4 with 500 records with my account so no, that is not the issue.. More like the scene is standing still.

//


What do you mean by 'the scene is standing still'? You don't actually think ppl(people) will play the maps more often because the database got swiped? :s
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Re: Callvote reset DB F1 or F2 ?

Postby Arcaon » May 10th, '10, 11:57 pm

ZyaX wrote:If you want to reset the db because it will be a cheat free scoreboard from that point on, then you should first make sure that you are able to and will be able to bust every cheated demo to be recorded from that point on. As far as I know we are not able to even detect every cheat that exists, let alone know of every cheat. What if we wipe it now and then in a few months or years, a new, previously unknown method of cheating will come to our attention, shall we then wipe the db again and start over again? And this process shall be repeated over and over? Because according to the gurus of defrag, we have not yet discovered everything in the game. Be it cheat or legit technique. Just take the gb for example.
I think it will turn out as a big fat joke and a lot of people will be very discouraged to know that they have to start over from scratch. So in trying to battle the cheaters in this manner, you are only attacking yourself and what you originally wanted to defend.


I know Cgaz was working on a cheat detector for server demos, and it was planned to have it scan for cheats automatically when times were set. And since the server demos are always there, they can be checked for all eternity if new cheats are discovered.

One solution is to keep all records set after server demos were implemented (that's still ~1000 out of 1425 records for you ZyaX :roll:)

eS-AL|EN wrote:I don't even want to think what players like ZyaX, Arca, Bazz or anyone who have 300+ very good online times will feel when they will be gone. I never wanted to play online because I was fear that my all priceless times will be deleted :cry:


As for me, I'd gladly move my .rec files to another folder and do the best that I can on those maps. The vast majority of my times can be beaten with some effort anyway, and I'm not really motivated at the moment to try to beat my rank 1 times.
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Re: Callvote reset DB F1 or F2 ?

Postby aadad » May 11th, '10, 12:59 pm

Also don't forget Slayerman, he has plenty times as well :)

Though zyax actually said everything there is to be said, I'll still comment again on your (Atom) olympic games argument.
Olympic games is a rare event that takes place. If you like you may compare it to dfwc where only the "active" and recently done times are counted. However this does NOT affect the past in any ways. You'll always see the OR (Olympic Record) and WR (World Record) displayed on TV, no matter when it was done. Those records don't reset, they are static and remain to be beaten in the future. Consider the DB as a hall-of-fame, not a ranking that resets in a weekly pattern or sth.

It's ludicrous and obvious that some people want to ignore the past. Although you might feel leet when having "better" ranks after a reset, believe me it'll hurt the overall playing because many people don't login on a map that has either few/no ranks or because they can't beat the record...no names posted here but I know you know I know that you have that mentality 8-)
It already was a pain in the ass when the login system was introduced in late 2007 to have people login on new maps...none of you will be satisfied with a bunch of 1/1 records.


My original proposal (from over 1.5 years ago when serverdemos were first thought of) remains:

1)
Add a checkbox field to all maps/times in a player's profile.
If he selects it, a download symbol (floppydisc wohoo!) will publically appear next to the entry where everyone can download this demo/serverdemo from. Also add an extra column to the !top rankings on the server that indicates *DEMO* next to the time when there's a downloadable demo for that particular run.

2)
Add another column to the rankings and !top on the server which can have one of these flags:
UNVERIFIED, VALID, INVALID.

All times will either be flagged as VALID (if they pass the detection) or as INVALID (if they don't).
By default all times before serverdemos were introduced are marked as UNVERIFIED.
If players want to verify their UNVERIFIED times and therefor have marked them as VALID they can submit the demo which will then run through the validator.
This would first of all allow competition between those recent strafebotters since the times on those map would be flagged as INVALID, but also provide extra topfiltering like:
!top show [all|valid|invalid|unverified].
Additionally e.g. all INVALID times would neither have a ranking number next to them nor increase the next rank's number.
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Re: Callvote reset DB F1 or F2 ?

Postby sdf » May 11th, '10, 2:05 pm

cliffnotes so far ?
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Re: Callvote reset DB F1 or F2 ?

Postby MidiMightyMoe » May 11th, '10, 2:10 pm

I voted no, because those ranking give me a good overall see of what is a decent time/good time on a map and if it was to be deleted the ranking would be irrevelant for quite a time. The more a map has been played, the more the rankings will be revelant. Plus it has this "WR" feeling, some of them will take years to be beaten, and that's cool this way imo. I am really not into a WR rush where people will play alone on servers during night to make records on unkown maps and where we will play maps for 10 minuts then change to get more recs .

However, for people who want more challenge about the last maps or what's going on now, I think it's relatively easy to do somehting like monthly/weekly rankings or something like that.
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Re: Callvote reset DB F1 or F2 ?

Postby ZyaX » May 11th, '10, 5:10 pm

That was a very interesting and good suggestion wesp. I must have missed that suggestion when you first came up with it.
About 1), would each player be able to check any number of times he would choose? Or is it all or none? If it is for each individual time, then I like it.


And on topic, I spoke with atom yesterday and we came to an understanding of what he really wanted to achieve and we both agreed upon it, but that a db-reset really wasn't the best answer(although wesps suggestion seems like a good solution). So why don't you post to here to clear things up for everyone atom? :P
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